10 million deaths a year.
That is how many people are predicted to die from antibiotic-resistant infections if we do not find new treatments.
In today’s episode, Professor Martha Clokie and Professor Tim Spector explore the secret gut viruses, known as phages, being studied to fight deadly infection, target cancer cells, and to protect your gut microbiome.
Martha is a world-leading expert on the mysterious phage and, for the last 20 years, has pioneered research to revolutionise the treatment of infections without antibiotics. She explains why antibiotic resistance is a growing global threat, why everyday infections are becoming harder to treat, and how some bacteria are now resistant to every antibiotic available. We explore how the viruses in our gut may help solve this problem, and how scientists may one day use them to deliver highly targeted cancer treatment.
By the end of the episode, you’ll have some ideas to help support a healthier gut ecosystem and understand how to increase the number of friendly gut viruses that live inside you.
The science is still early, but the message is clear: the small choices we make every day are shaping our long-term resilience to disease.
If viruses can help protect us from infection rather than cause it, how much of human health are we only just beginning to understand?
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Timecodes
00:00 Intro
01:34 The gut viruses scientists say we need to survive
03:19 There are more gut viruses than stars in the universe
10:50 The billion-year war happening inside your gut
13:10 The hidden system controlling your microbiome
14:42 What healthy microbiomes have that unhealthy guts lose
16:33 The gut viruses that may protect you from infection
17:38 Why your immune system allows trillions of viruses to live inside you
19:25 The natural viruses that kill salmonella
20:52 Why ageing may weaken your gut’s viral defences
22:05 Scientists still don’t know what most gut viruses do
25:12 The strange origin story of phage therapy
27:22 Doctors are already using viruses to treat deadly infections
28:02 Why antibiotics are starting to fail
29:07 The deadly infection crisis bigger than cancer
30:38 How factory farming fuels antibiotic resistance
32:27 The antibiotic resistance emergency is already here
33:25 The forgotten treatment abandoned after antibiotics
35:50 Why phage therapy may spare your microbiome
36:37 The dying patient saved by experimental viruses
39:41 Could phages replace antibiotics in the future?
40:50 The viruses scientists are using to target cancer cells
44:35 How diet shapes the viruses living in your gut
46:05 The surprising link between coffee and gut health
47:25 The foods that may increase healthy gut viruses
50:34 The future of gut health, cancer treatment and infection prevention
📚Books by our ZOE Scientists
The Food For Life Cookbook
Every Body Should Know This by Dr Federica Amati
Food For Life by Prof. Tim Spector
Ferment by Prof. Tim Spector
Good Mood Food (preorder) by Prof. Tim Spector
Free resources from ZOE
The Hormone Harmony Guide: Tuning Your Body’s Internal Orchestra
Eating for Better Brain Health: Your brain-gut blueprint
How to eat in 2026 - Discover ZOE’s 8 nutrition principles for long-term health
Live Healthier: Top 10 Tips From ZOE Science & Nutrition
Gut Guide - For a Healthier Microbiome in Weeks
Better Breakfast Guide
Mentioned in today's episode
How gut viruses shape your gut microbiome
Phages to the rescue, Trends in Microbiology (2024)
Compounds in the foods we eat can trigger phage production, Gut Microbes (2020)
Microbiomes of garden vs supermarket produce, Nature (2022)
Phage Therapy at Belgium’s Queen Astrid Military Hospital, Viruses (2019)
Habitual coffee intake shapes the gut microbiome, Nature (2026)
Have feedback or a topic you'd like us to cover? Let us know here.
Episode transcripts are available here.